Tra Telligman Interview

Tra and TXMMA’s Tune Outhavong at Saul Soliz’s Renegades I in Houston. TXMMA Talks to Tra “Trauma” Telligman Tra Telligman is a Dallas native who has been around the mixed martial arts scene for quite a while, having fought around the world for many different promotions.ÿÿ A member of the Lion’s Den, Tra was recently considered by some to be a 2nd-tier fighter due to some tough losses in the last couple of years – until he shocked the MMA world by defeating the much-feared Ukranian juggernaut Igor “Ice Cold” Vovchanchin in Japan’s Pride Fighting Championship.ÿ Continuing to turn heads, Tra has progressed to trying his hand at professional boxing and has racked up a 3-0 record, all by knockout.ÿ The next 12 months should prove to be extremely busy for Tra, as he plans to fight as frequently as possible in both boxing and MMA.ÿ Read on to find out more on Tra’s objectives for the next year, how he got into the Lion’s Den, his interesting opinions on the MMA industry, and how serious his recent venture into boxing is. Interview conducted September 20th, 2001

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TXMMA:ÿ Tra, thanks for taking this interview on short notice.ÿ Let’s start with a little background on Tra Telligman for those who aren’t familiar with you and your career, along with some info on your training and what you’re up to these days with the Den.

Tra:ÿ I’m originally from Fort Worth, Texas, born and raised there.ÿ I was there for most of my life, lived up in New Jersey outside of New York for about 6 years, moved back to the Dallas/Fort Worth area.ÿ I’m more considered a Dallas boy now, I live kind of right between Dallas and Fort Worth, right near DFW airport.ÿ As far as fighting, I’ve been doing it my whole life, I’ve done a bunch of different things…..I’ve taken Karate, I’ve taken Taekwondo, I took Isshinryu Karate, Chung Do Kwan, as a kid took different styles in different places… as a kid I boxed up in New Jersey for 3 years, started taking Jiu-jitsu when I was 18, and I’ve done that from that time forward, not necessarily all at once, but over the years I’ve always been doing it.ÿ I’m just kind of, one of those guys that soaked up everything there ever was, and kept always learning – if I see something new I liked, a new technique I liked, I would work with it.

TXMMA: ÿHow did you you get hooked up with the Lion’s Den?

Tra: ÿI got hooked up actually through Guy.ÿ Guy met Ken (Shamrock), saw Ken fight in one of the first UFC’s, he ended up going out to California and meeting Ken.ÿ Guy and I were best friends at the time so I ended up meeting Ken – I think the first time I met Ken was up in Denver at the first Ultimate Ultimate they had.ÿ We hit it off really well, I just told him I was interested in being part of the Lion’s Den. They ended up calling me up, they had some fights going on in Hawaii.. after that then I went out there to train with Ken.ÿ Basically my initiation was Ken, basically when I was already really tired one day, Ken got out on the mat with me and basically beat the hell out of me for about 30 minutes.ÿ Just to make sure I wouldn’t quit or whatever, that was a pretty rough go-around.

TXMMA:ÿ Yeah, a real backbone check…you always hear stories on the net about the latest Lion’s Den initiation workouts are like…

Tra:ÿ Pretty crazy stuff, yeah.ÿ That’s one thing about our guys, we train harder in training than we do in the fights.ÿ People always talk about how tough the fights are – the fighting’s the easy part!ÿ I’ve actually gotten better over the years at learning to back off in my training now before the fight… used to be that by the time I got to the fight, I was so beat up and worn out that I just wanted to get the fight over with.ÿ I’ve actually started to lighten up my training, as you get older you got to be smart with your body.

TXMMA: ÿLet’s talk about what you’re up to with your career these days, between boxing and MMA.ÿ You’re coming off that huge win at Pride over Igor Vovchanchin, you’ve tried your hand at boxing and you’ve got 3 wins in a row, 3 by knockout.ÿ What are your plans in these two arenas for the near future? Do you want to focus on boxing, MMA or both?

Tra:ÿ I want to focus on every type of fighting there is.ÿ I’m training my ass off, and in breaking news I may be very close to getting on a plane tomorrow to go over and fight Semmy (Schilt) this weekend, we’re in negotiations right now.ÿ Everybody keeps asking, a lot of people think I’m concentrating on boxing, people wonder when I’m going to come back into MMA, a lot of people wonder what I’m going to be doing.ÿ I will fight this year, for sure, I will box, I will fight MMA, and I will fight in K-1.ÿ All three of those this year.ÿ My gamelan is this… everybody keeps asking me which one I want to focus on, you know whoever is paying me the money, whoever steps up to the plate…. but so far boxing has really stepped up and they’ve put together a really good deal for me.ÿ I’ve got some really good handlers, I’ve got really good promoters that are really promoting me, and I like that – it’s nice to be wanted and to feel wanted.ÿ

Seems like every time I get to dealing with the MMA world, there’s so much bullshit involved, they’re always trying to nickel-and-dime you and what not.ÿ It’s funny, I’m sick of it.ÿ I’m at a point now, I plan on fighting every 6 weeks from here on out.ÿ I like being active, since June I’ve been fighting every 4 weeks.ÿ Right now I’ve got a boxing fight scheduled for this Saturday night, I’ve got another one scheduled for October 20th.ÿ They’re all televised, one’s here in Mississippi, next one’s in Vegas, I just got a call from Pride, I may possibly do that depending on if they’re willing to compensate my promoters, they’re negotiating that right now.ÿ If that happens I’ll be getting on a plane tomorrow and coming to Japan, and I’ll be doing a freestyle fight instead of boxing this weekend. (note – this match eventually fell through, as Pride decided to match Schilt with Akira Shoji, rather than compensate Tra’s boxing promoters for the boxing match he would have missed to fight in Pride)

TXMMA:ÿ How does it feel right now, since you had kind of a long stretch there, where you didn’t have that many fights in recent years, and people were saying, “Tra Telligman is done” or whatever…. and now you’ve got these recent victories.ÿ Does it feel like you’ve vindicated yourself from a lot of the stuff that people have been saying about you?

Tra: ÿWhat a lot of people don’t realize, there’s a lot of people out there in this sport, a lot of fighters that fight, that don’t train properly – what I mean is that they’re not learning all the time, they’re doing the same old stuff, doing the same things.ÿ I’ve always been (learning new things), and one of the reasons why the Lion’s Den has always been so successful, is we’re always adapting, and I’m always training.ÿÿ So even when I’m not fighting, even when I have a layoff between fights, I’m in there doing new things, working with new coaches, and learning new things.ÿ So people don’t realize that if I haven’t fought for 6 months, I’ve improved and become a better fighter within those 6 months.ÿ I’m always changing as a style of fighter.ÿ

I’m still not where I want to be as a fighter yet – I’m still getting better every day in boxing.ÿ I’m 1 year away in boxing from calling out the big boys, and they’re bringing me along, gearing me up for that.ÿ I’m training with some of the top heavyweights – I trained this last 2 weeks for this fight, with one of the top heavyweights in the world, and I’m doing pretty well with him.ÿ So my confidence is getting better, better, and better, and realistically I’m about a year off from being ready to call out some of the big names.ÿ In freestyle (fighting), I’m already there – I’d prefer, if I was doing a freestyle match, I would like to have 4-5 weeks to start wrestling hard and start working on that type of a gamelan.ÿ Which I’m not getting this time (re: the potential fight with Semmy Schilt in Pride 16), but I’ll take it the way it goes and see what happens.

TXMMA:ÿ I guess after that win against Igor, that pretty much affirmed in your mind, though you probably knew it already, that you can hang with anybody in the heavyweight division…

Tra:ÿ The sad thing,ÿ the funny thing is, what the fans don’t realize, is I’m one of those guys… I’ve trained.. that’s one thing about the Lion’s Den, we train with a lot of different people.ÿ We’re not one of those guys, that we just train with our guys, we don’t train with outsiders etc… anybody wants to walk in our gym who wants to train, that thinks he’s a somebody, I’ll train with him.ÿ If he’s a good guy, great – if he’s a bad guy…. I’ll break him.ÿ I’ve trained with a lot of the top fighters out there, and if go around talking to some of these top fighters about me, they’ll tell you, “That’s a bad dude.”ÿ And so I’ve always known that… there’s also the thing where you get in the ring and you lose, and you go, “What the hell?” where you start feeling jinxed after a while.ÿ As far as knowing where your capabilities are and knowing what your abilities are – I know what my abilities are.ÿ I’m one of those guys that wouldn’t be doing this if I didn’t think I was good enough to beat anybody.ÿ When I train with somebody in boxing who’s better than me, I would already be out of boxing – except I’m training with this guy going, “This guy is at a level that I want to be at, and I know in time, that I’m going to be better than this guy.” And that’s what keeps me going.

TXMMA:ÿ Who would you say, right now, regardless of money, in boxing or MMA or whatever, is there anyone you’d like to test yourself in particular?

Tra:ÿ As far as right now? No. As far as who I’d want to fight a year from now?ÿ Mike Tyson.ÿ My stable is working on a deal to fight him right now.ÿ So that’s a real possibility if things keep progressing the way they are right now.ÿ If I end up a year from now at 15-0 I’ve got a legitimate shot at getting an in with some of those guys, and that’s what my goal is.ÿ I got into the freestyle world, when I first started this my goal was to beat the best out there and to fight the best, and that’s the same with boxing – I want to fight the best.ÿ And I know when I’m ready for it, I’m gonna start running my mouth to try and make those fights happen.ÿ As of right now, can I beat Tyson right now? No.ÿ And I’m aware of that so I don’t run my mouth, but when the time comes that I think I’m ready, I’m going to speak up and try to make that fight happen.

TXMMA: ÿAs far as future matches in MMA, potentially the match with Semmy for example, would we see a difference in your style?ÿ Would we see more of Tra the boxer, or would we see you using your boxing skills as mainly an entry to the ground game?ÿ How do you think it’s changed your strategy?

Tra:ÿ It didn’t change my strategy a lot, because it used to be, you had certain strengths.ÿ Now my strengths have gone up to where my boxing is a strength, my wrestling is a strength, my submissions are a strength.ÿ And so what I do now is I just go out there and fight.ÿ Ken (Shamrock) used to say this to me a long time ago, when we were training, “Tra, quit trying to go and out-technique people – just go kick their ass, just go let it happen.ÿ If you just go and fight, it’ll all come to you.ÿ And don’t get out there and try and box with a boxer, don’t get out there and try and kickbox with a kickboxer, don’t get into any one of those frames of mind – just go out there and do what you gotta do to kick the guy’s ass.ÿ Fighting Semmy would be the same way, if I go out there and go after him.ÿ If I go out there and catch a big shot from him and I get hurt, I’m gonna shoot and make it a different fight.ÿ If I go out there and catch him with a big shot and hurt him, I react to whatever happens there – if I catch him and can catch him again, then I keep hitting him.ÿ If I catch him and he starts covering up, maybe I take him down and swing for a submission while I think he’s hurt.ÿ

I’m at a point now, I just want to go fight.ÿ I just don’t care anymore.ÿ I’ve finally have opened up to where I’m training my ass off, I’m in shape and I’m just gonna come fight and let the chips fall where they may.ÿ I don’t care how hard you train or what kind of shape you’re in, anything can happen in a fight, that’s why you fight the fight.ÿ But I’m coming to fight.ÿ I might wake up and say “Hey, what happened?”, I don’t care, all I know is that I came out there to fight.ÿ I’ve stepped in the ring a couple times in the past where I wasn’t ready to fight, wasn’t in shape, didn’t even know why I was there…. now I’m focused, if I lose, hey, I came to fight.ÿ

TXMMA: That’s one of the things, personally, I like about the sport right now (MMA) because still compared to boxing it’s still very pure.ÿ Most of the guys are not coasting thru fights just collecting a paycheck like in boxing, and ….

Tra: ÿOh I disagree, I’ve seen a lot of guys in freestyle that are out there trying to get paid.ÿ Lots of your top fighters are all out there where it’s all about the paycheck, they’re just looking to get paid and they have better skills than some of the other guys.. but as soon as they get tested by some of the other guys they fold, they go home and they collect their paycheck.ÿ

TXMMA:ÿ Would you say there are some guys out there that just sort of cruise through their matches?

Tra:ÿ Oh absolutely, all the time.ÿ People out there, I mean it’s a business and a pretty corrupt business at that.ÿ It’s not the same as boxing yet, because you don’t have the dollar figures as boxing.ÿ Trust me, when the salaries start getting up there like boxing salaries, then you’re going to have all kinds of bullshit going on, bad judges’ decisions, different things like that.ÿ I was really shocked myself when I fought Igor because I didn’t think there was any way they were going to let me win with the judges’ decision.ÿ Really was impressed with the fact that they judged that the way they should, I’ve been impressed, I’ve really never seen Pride or UFC have bad judges’ decisions.ÿ They’ve had some that were controversial, but they were close decisions.

TXMMA:ÿ None of them were like Holyfield vs Lewis, the first one, for example.

Tra: ÿCorrect, exactly.

TXMMA:ÿ Well it is a quandary for a lot of us who are fans of the sport, we want the sport to blow up and be popular.. the problem is that with money and popularity comes the possibility of corruption and your Don King, Bob Arum, those guys getting in there.ÿ Maybe not specifically those guys, but somebody like them.

Tra:ÿ Absolutely.ÿ Oh and what people don’t realize, as far as making this mainstream, which it’s gonna be, what they should have done a long time ago…is take guys… well you know if the original UFC had come along after the first 4 or 5 of those, and taken guys like Ken and Royce, guy from America and guy from Brazil, Oleg from Russia, a guy from Japan, take a big name, Funaki, or somebody from Japan, and you take some of these big names and they did it like they do in boxing, and you know what they would have done?ÿ They would have given these guys fish to fight for the next year.. and they would have built those guys as these 4 unbelievable fighters, and a year later have them fight each other, so that people would actually want to see it.ÿ And that’s what boxing does.ÿ People crack me up, when people talk about so-and-so fighting this or that…. if you go back and look at Tyson’s fights, the first 20 fights he ever had were nobodies!ÿ That’s the way boxing is, boxing is all a business.ÿ And one thing we forget about this sport, is when money becomes involved, it becomes a business.ÿ

It took me a long time to figure that out, because I was a typical guy, my ego and my personal thing was that I wanted to see how good I was and I wanted to fight the best and that was the way I always went about this.ÿ And that really hurt my career, and in a lot of ways, because my ego got me involved in doing things I shouldn’t have been doing when I wasn’t ready to do them or wasn’t in shape to do them or I was injured… and yet I did them anyway just because of the love of fighting and doing it, and it wasn’t great business decisions.ÿ And I’ve seen a lot of fighters out there making great business decisions, who now are top fighters, and I look at them and think, you got to give them the respect for getting to where they’ve gotten because they’re not that good a fighter.

TXMMA:ÿ They’ve essentially made the right decisions, picked the right opponents to help build themselves up, etc..

Tra:ÿ Exactly.ÿ And you’d be shocked what goes behind the scenes, the negotiations over the years.ÿ I mean there’s certain fighters out there that have reputations that they’ll come fight, but most of your top guys, are ducking constantly.ÿ They’re always getting offers, “Do you want to fight so-and-so?” and they say “No.” and then they bring up someone else, “Do you want to fight so-and-so?” “No.”ÿ And they come with a third choice, “Okay I’ll fight him”.ÿ That happens constantly, and the fans don’t realize it.ÿ I hear the fans talking all the time about how “Oh, if so-and-so fought so-and-so, he would kill him!”ÿ What they don’t realize is that so-and-so has already been offered to fight so-and-so TWICE, and turned it down both times.

TXMMA:ÿ Yeah, well the more popular the fighters get, the more power they have and the more they’re going to be able to cherry-pick their opponents, it’s unfortunate but somewhat unavoidable.ÿ Hopefully the MMA business won’t turn into as corrupt a business as boxing in terms of fighters rampantly ducking each other, that’s not where we want to take the sport.

Speaking of boxing, there’s been talk that the Den in recent years has really stepped up its focus on boxing, is that true or not, and how has training at the Den changed?… how does the training differ from just a year or two ago?

Tra:ÿ Oh, it’s always different because we’re always changing and always adapting to new things.ÿ But at the same time we still stick to the same basic work ethic, and I think that’s the key.ÿ I’m the only one who’s truly gone off and started boxing.ÿ I keep hearing all over the place that we’re focusing on boxing now.ÿÿ No – what Ken did is he opened up a gym in San Diego that has heavy bags and rings and he also has a lot of people from Tijuana coming over now, and boxing is a big sport down around that area so you got a lot of people coming in and boxing… and you’ve got some boxing coaches that are there working with some of those guys…. so naturally the guys are going to work with some of those boxing coaches.ÿ But as far as us saying, “Hey we gotta learn boxing”, no. We say, “Hey we gotta learn everything.”ÿ It’s like here in Dallas, the people we train with…. you know I’ve been focusing more on boxing just because I am boxing, but if I sign a deal with somebody like Pride or the UFC, then I’m going to start focusing on all 3 facets of the game.ÿ I’d be working with a submission coach, a wrestling coach, a boxing coach, and be doing kickboxing as well.ÿ Right now I am concentrating on boxing because I’ve got boxing fights lined up and that’s what’s paying my bills.

TXMMA:ÿ What would you say, would it be the work ethic as you mentioned, or what would be the strongest qualities that the Den has to offer to the people who train there?

Tra:ÿ I think it’s just all over, man.ÿ You know, we’re a family, and I just can’t express that enough, when you’ve got guys there that go through the same things you go through that have been there, done that, and they know what you’re going through… so when you’re training and you’re tired and you go, “I can’t go any more”, and they look at you and say, “Don’t be a pussy, yes you can.” – they know what they’re talking about.ÿ They’re not just some smartass coach over there who’s never done it trying to tell you you’re not working hard enough.ÿ So you respect what they’re telling you.ÿ Another thing the Den does, is that it lets us all be individuals.ÿ And that’s what I’ve done in the last year or so, is I’ve gone off more on my own to concentrate on Tra moreso than anything, which I didn’t do for the longest time.ÿ That has allowed me to progress up to where I needed to be to train and focus on what was smart for me.ÿ That’s one thing we’ve always done, is when I’ve got a fight coming up, then the guys will rally around me, and if I say “hey I can train around this time” or whatever, then they show up at that time.ÿ There’s always somebody there to show up and train with me. And likewise, if Guy’s got a fight, even if I’m beat up and tired, I’ll go up there and work out with him.ÿ People don’t realize how hard it is to find good sparring partners, good wrestling partners, good training partners – people that will take a beating day in and day out.ÿ It’s no fun, especially as a heavyweight….people don’t realize, one thing like in boxing, it’s hard to find sparring partners for a heavyweight.ÿ Because, why in the hell do I want to go get my head beat in every day when I don’t have a fight coming up?ÿ People don’t realize that heavyweights hit twice as hard as middleweights do, but we both still have the same skull thickness, so we take a lot more punishment.ÿ That’s the one thing about the Den, we show up on a daily basis, to train those of our guys that are getting ready for their fights.ÿ We’re there to support them, and without that…. you’ve gotta have that, it makes all the difference.

TXMMA:ÿ Well as you know, these days fighters and training in the freestyle/MMA game are constantly changing and evolving.ÿ Back in the day, correct or not, people might have characterized Tra Telligman more as a groundfighter, grappler, or submission fighter than a striker – how would you classify yourself today?ÿ Would you classify yourself today more as a freestyle/hybrid fighter, or a …….

Tra: ÿI would characterize myself as an old guy, that has turned into a freestyle fighter… I’m not one of anything anymore, and that’s what it’s evolving to, and that’s what the younger guys are going to be.ÿ You’ll have guys coming along that are going to be world class boxers, they’re going to be world class wrestlers, they’re going to be guys that can compete in nationals in wrestling, that can compete at Abu Dhabi, that can compete in a professional boxing or kickboxing ring.ÿ You’ve got to be able to do all that in order to be able to compete at this level.ÿ What people don’t realize, that’s what we’re doing – that’s what I’m doing, that’s what Guy’s doing, that’s what Ken’s doing.ÿ We’re adapting.ÿ We may be the older guys, but we’re still in this game, and we’re the ones that are leading the way doing that.ÿ And because of our skill level going into this, it already puts us ahead of everybody a little bit.ÿ It gives us just a little bit of advantage over the younger guys.ÿ These younger guys that are up and coming, they’re gonna be the new breed, they’re gonna be guys that can do it all.ÿ And that’s why it’s important for me this year, I want to fight K-1, I want to fight boxing, I want to stay active.ÿ I’m going to be fighting every 6 weeks minimum.ÿ I’ve been fighting every four weeks, and I’m scheduled right now to fight this weekend and the 20th which is less than four weeks away.ÿ From now on, as long as I’m injury free, I’m active.ÿ If somebody wants to call me up and say “Hey we got a fight for you”, and they want to pay me like they should pay me, I’m going to come fight.ÿ That’s one problem I had in the past, is not staying active enough, and it’s a hard game.ÿ Freestyle/MMA went through a real slump there for a while, where unless you were fighting in little bitty shows, it’s hard to stay active.

TXMMA: ÿHow would you see the Tra Telligman of today faring against some of today’s heavyweights in the Ultimate Fighting Championship, like Barnett, Rizzo, Couture and so forth?

Tra: ÿI can honestly say I think I’m ready to challenge for a title.ÿ I would very much like to get in the ring with Rizzo again.ÿ I like the guy a lot, I respect him a lot, I would like to get in there and finish that business and see who’s really the best fighter.ÿ I had some problems going into that last fight, I tore my quad in that last fight, and that was a really bad deal for me… so I’d really like to have that fight over again.ÿ I like Couture, I think he’s a great guy as well, but if he’s holding the belt, I think that’s a very good matchup for me.ÿ Both those guys who are the two top guys there right now, are very good matchups for me, so I like both of those fights.

TXMMA:ÿ Let’s say somebody, if you get in there and you have to fight someone who isn’t a belt-holder at the time, to work your way up to a title shot…….

Tra:ÿ Then I want Pedro Rizzo.

TXMMA:ÿ How about some of the newer guys like Josh Barnett, Bobby Hoffman, some of those guys?ÿ What’s your opinion on them as opponents?

Tra:ÿ I think Barnett is a real underrated guy, I think he’s somebody who’s also learning constantly, he’s a young kid that’s getting better, better, and better.ÿ Bobby Hoffman I don’t know a whole lot about, I’ve only seen him fight one time.. he’s just a really big, strong guy and I’m sure he’s improving as well.ÿ I mean, anybody who’s staying in this game is going to keep improving, get more experience, improve their technique, etc.ÿ Josh, I’ve been extremely impressed with, there’s a kid who just continues to learn.

TXMMA: ÿHe’s got a very good work ethic too, it’s great to see him improving with every fight.

Tra: ÿYes, a very good work ethic.ÿ

TXMMA: ÿOkay, let’s close with the subject of Texas.ÿ What are your thoughts/opinions on the current state of the sport in Texas, good, bad or otherwise?

Tra: ÿI’m actually pretty tight with the boxing commission here, I know them pretty well, and I think they’ve been extremely fair.ÿ We’ve had some jokers here, that really put a damper on things here in Texas, I’m not going to mention any names, doing some illegal stuff and I think that really slowed us down as far as progressing to closed-fist.ÿ I think that will come soon, this sport is a sport that will be around for a long time.ÿ It’s going to be, in my opinion, within 10 years it will overtake boxing.ÿ People are starting to learn…. kickboxing was different, different things over the years have gotten popular and then gone away…. this sport’s not going away – because people now know that Mike Tyson is not the baddest man on the face of the Earth.ÿ I look at Mike Tyson, and I’d love to fight him in boxing.ÿ The reality is, I could go with him in the sparring ring and spar with him every day.ÿ If Mike Tyson wants to step into the freestyle ring with me, that’s either going to be a 30 second fight or a 2 minute fight, depending on whether he’s smart enough to try to stay back on me or stupid enough to come straight after me.ÿ So, people now know that those guys are not the top fighters in the world, the freestyle guys are.ÿ A lot of the average people out there don’t know that, it’s just starting.ÿ Anybody that’s ever worked out with a freestyle guy, any boxer that’s ever worked out with a freestyle guy, any wrestler that’s worked out with a freestyle guy, they have a suddenly have a real respect for what we do.

TXMMA: ÿIf definitely gives you a new perspective.ÿ I have a small amateur wrestling background, and the first time I ever rolled against a guy that knew Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, I thought that it was going to be a breeze to roll with him.ÿ Then of course after I started tapping left and right, that opened my eyes, there was a whole different world out there.ÿ I think it’s going to be really important to stress how well-rounded and how much training and skill MMA athletes have, to help break this out into the mainstream… because most people still think that unskilled bums and out of shape bar brawlers participate in this sport, you know how it is……like a toughman contest, tons of misperceptions …

Tra:ÿ Look at the bright side, that’s one of the things I’m trying to do here, if I can keep progressing in boxing, then that’s going to suddenly bring a lot of legitimacy to free-fighting.ÿ If I can get in there and go with a Tyson or a Holyfield, or one of the top guys, the reality is when that fight’s over and if I’m still standing, “Hey bro, by the way….. you know, I was just using my hands, I wasn’t using the other 3 or 4 weapons that I’ve got.”

TXMMA: ÿYeah, “By the way, I ALSO box.”

Tra:ÿ Yeah, exactly.ÿ It’s funny, because I’ve sparred with guys, when I’ve had a couple guys come in that were very good boxers…. they get in there and get real cocky and do some weird shit to me, and I shoot on them and pick them up and throw them on their head, and the look on their face is, “Where the *hell* did that come from?”ÿ And I say, “Yeah, by the way, if you want me to take these gloves off and kick your ass, I will.”

TXMMA: ÿHeh, heh.ÿ Well hey, thanks again for taking the time to do this interview, good luck with all your fights going forward, and is there anything you want to leave the fans?

Tra:ÿ Yeah, just that I’ve had a lot of good people really support me over the years, and I think that over the next 2 years they’re going to see me extremely active.ÿ Whether I’m boxing, fighting freestyle, or kickboxing, I’m going to be fighting just every other month, so I think that they’ll enjoy that, the fact that I’m finally staying active now.ÿ So, whoever lines them up for me, that’s where I’m stepping in the ring.

The Dallas Lion’s Den, also known as Guy Mezger’s Freestyle Martial Arts, is located on McKinney avenue in Dallas, for contact information please check our Schools page.