Check out this interview with the outspoken Guy Mezger of the Dallas Lion’s Den, talking about the fight business, Pride, and his plans for the future.
 | TXMMA Talks to Guy MezgerGuy Mezger is a native of Dallas who’s just about done it all.ÿ Traditional martial arts, boxing, kickboxing, and mixed martial arts both here and abroad.ÿ UFC Heavyweight Tournament Champion, and King of Pancrase are two of Guy’s many titles.ÿ Guy is a member of Ken Shamrock’s well-known Lion’s Den team, and heads up the Dallas Lion’s Den.ÿ Guy has also been one of the main people actively trying to get full-blown MMA approved in Texas over the last few years.ÿ We had a chance to talk to Guy recently, a few days before he needed to leave to Japan for his upcoming battle against Brazilian submission wrestling phenom Ricardo Arona in Pride 16.ÿ Read on to find out about what Guy is up to lately (including the possible end of his bachelor status), his thoughts about facing Arona, and his views on the fight game at large as well as in Texas. Interview conducted September 13th, 2001 ÿ |
TXMMA: Guy, thanks for agreeing to do this interview, glad we finally got a hold of each other.ÿ For people who are new to the scene, new fans, etc. who are not familiar with Guy Mezger, what’s some brief background on yourself, your training, and what your training is like these days?
Guy:ÿ Well basically I’m a born and bred Texan, and spent most of my life around the Dallas area.ÿ As far as my training, basically I was a wrestler when I was a kid, that was all the way through college.ÿ I did traditional Oriental martial arts, Texas-style, Tae Kwon Do, Chun Do Kwan, when I was 14, and just basically gravitated from that into full-contact Karate and boxing, kickboxing, basically was doing that for a living until ’94, when I was asked to fight in the Ultimate Fighting Championship.
TXMMA:ÿ That was your initial match against Jason Fairn, right?
Guy:ÿ That was Jason Fairn, right.ÿ Basically after I won the world title in kickboxing in ’95, you know there just wasn’t enough money being generated in the sport.ÿ So if I wanted to do this for a living, I had to go where I was gonna go, which was the free-fighting, so I was working for the Pancrase organization, fighting in the Ultimate, things like that.ÿ Basically I fought for the Pancrase organization 5-6 years, something like that.
TXMMA: And you won the King of Pancrase title in, ’98 was it?
Guy:ÿ Yeah, ’98, might have been ’97.
TXMMA:ÿ Let’s talk about the Dallas Lion’s Den, what’s new with the Den these days?
Guy:ÿ Well, I don’t know if there’s anything terribly new, we’re just creating our gym here, with, well you know we have guys that are just training as mixed martial artists-oriented, you know what I mean, to amateur and pros.ÿ Everyone knows Alex Andrade, Tra Telligman, and myself, but we have a couple other guys, we have Jacks Calvin – who’s one of ours, he hasn’t fought in a long time but he’s back training again, he’s like a 5-0 pro.ÿ Then we have Takashi Inoue, another boy named Hiro, two Japanese kids that train with us here, they both fight pro now, and Chris Bowles who fights pro for us now.ÿ And we have various other kids that are up and coming, we basically do any kind of full-contact fighting.ÿ We have boxing, we have guys fight boxing and kickboxing, not so much kickboxing right now because it’s sort of stalled out here in the states for a while…. but basically boxing and free-fighting really.
TXMMA:ÿ I actually think I saw Takashi, was it Renegades 2 or 3? Down in Houston at the Radisson way back.ÿ In regards to your career, your next fight is against ADCC champion Ricardo Arona at Pride 16 – what are your thoughts about that matchup, how do you see yourself matching up against him?ÿ He does have quite a bit less experience in free-fighting/NHB than you, but….
Guy:ÿ He’s tough though, I mean this kid’s real tough, I’ve seen his fighting – he’s a good wrestler and obviously good at jiu-jitsu.ÿ You know, it depends on how they’re gonna do this fight… his ability to take me down, you know I’m sure eventually he’ll be able to take me down but what he can do from there will be interesting.ÿ I want it to be an exciting match you know, and my fear is that it’s not going to be very exciting…
TXMMA:ÿ Because of how your styles match up…
Guy: ÿYeah, I mean I understand he doesn’t know a lot of boxing, but I don’t think he’ll be dumb enough to stand up and throw down with me, you know?ÿ So I believe that once he gets hit, he’s gonna be diving at me, and it’s going to be a less than exciting match…. but I’m hoping for the best.
TXMMA: And of course the first concern is, well you want to give a good fight to the fans of course, but you also want to fight your fight….
Guy: ÿYeah, I mean yeah but the long and short of this, this is entertainment – if it’s not entertaining then people don’t fill the seats…
TXMMA: And it hurts your marketability as a fighter….
Guy: Yeah, so I mean I don’t personally see the matchup… I don’t know why they did it, because I just don’t see it being an exciting match.ÿ But the powers that be want it, so let’s do it – I don’t back down from any fight.
TXMMA: I guess it’s one of those things, where it looks really good on paper – you’ve got a guy, Arona, who’s a great grappling champion, and you’ve got Guy Mezger, an accomplished fighter in the MMA scene, and hey! let’s put them together! But as you know, styles make fights, and…
Guy: Yeah exactly, and it just, I don’t know, like I said hopefully it’ll be an interesting match.
TXMMA: Yeah, we’ll just have to see what happens, hopefully it’ll really be a great match.ÿ Right now, if you had your choice, regardless of purse or organization, is there anyone you’d like to test yourself against?
Guy: Yeah, I mean I’d like to fight Tito again.ÿ And, there’s a whole list of guys eventually that I’d like to fight you know…. I just think it’s one of those deals where, I just feel like there’s nobody out there that I can’t beat.ÿ Now I can be beaten, obviously, but in this thing, this is a very closely contested sport, especially in my weight division.ÿ Any given day any one of us couldÿbe the champ – some days I’ve been, some days they’ve been.
TXMMA:ÿ The light-heavy division, I’d have to agree, is insane right now, the depth of talent stacked up in that division right now across Pride and the UFC is pretty formidable.ÿ On that note, your fight against Chuck Liddell, that was a tough fight – obviously lots of action, fans loved that fight.ÿ Unfortunately you got caught, but up to that point you were executing a good game plan against Chuck…. what are your thoughts on that fight, your performance, and would you like to fight Chuck again?
Guy:ÿ Sure.ÿ Well yeah I would like to fight Chuck again… he’s a pretty good guy you know, I don’t really know him real well, but he seems like a decent guy and everything.ÿ But I don’t like losing, let alone getting knocked out.ÿ Yeah of course, I think I can beat him, I’d like to go for it again, you know?ÿ But fights…the Japanese have this really bad way of putting together these fights you know? I mean they barely have the card together now, for a fight that’s happening in a couple weeks, that’s just the way they do it. It takes a toll on the fighters, you know, because you can’t prepare right.ÿ I think that takes a part of how these matches go… it’s a shame but if they get themselves together a little better I think they’d have better matches or at least matches that fighters can be prepared for correctly.
TXMMA:ÿ So, on average, would you say with the way that they arrange the fighters and the cards, that a fighter maybe has about 2 weeks or 3 weeks notice?
Guy:ÿ Yes, I had like 2 weeks to fight Chuck Liddell….I’m like #*@^#$! – that’s not enough time.ÿ But then the other side of me is that I just try to be prepared for everybody in this thing.ÿ It’s just something where you didn’t even know you were gonna fight…..normally they let you know you’re gonna fight, they hadn’t given me an opponent.ÿ At that point I wasn’t supposed to be on the card, all of a sudden they call me and I’m like “Yeah, okay.”ÿ I think they should prepare a little bit better for that, I think it would be a better push for them for ticket sales, everything (to know the card well in advance).
TXMMA:ÿ In regards to Chuck, you guys have very similar backgrounds, a background in wrestling but you’re focusing on striking.ÿ A good mix of skills, but people view you and Chuck as having pretty close to the same style.ÿ Would you fight him differently if you were to fight again?
Guy:ÿ No.. I’d just go back after him like I did before, but with better condition.
TXMMA: ÿLike I said, it looked like your gameplan was working, you were trading, you were getting the better of him for a lot of the fight and got caught.
Guy: Yeah.. it happens.
TXMMA: I don’t know what the current conditions are with your Pride contract, but would you rather be fighting in Japan or fighting here, all things being equal?
Guy:ÿ Obviously I would like to fight in my hometown… I like fighting in Dallas.ÿ I fought in a little show back in November, here, I helped promote it, get it going – just because I want to fight in my hometown.ÿ I fought a boxing fight here in April, because I want to fight in my hometown.ÿ So the closer I can keep it in the States, I’d like to do that, but the money happens to be overseas… so unless I’m going to call welfare or get another job, I have to go overseas.
TXMMA: ÿIn regards to your career going forward,ÿ what are your goals right now, where would you like to be over the next year?
Guy: ÿWell I think with me, a lot of changes coming into my life, there’s a chance of….I might be married next year, and I’ve got to start thinking about other aspects of what I want to do.ÿ I love what I do for a living.ÿ I love the whole aspect of it.ÿ People call me a fighter… I’m not really a fighter, I consider myself a martial artist who happens to fight.ÿ I love it – I love teaching, I love the fighting part of it, I love being in the promotion part of it, so it’s just something… I’m gonna do it the rest of my life.ÿ It’s just this next year, I’ve got to focus on what’s going to be good for me in the long run.ÿ If I stay with fighting, I’m gonna fight… or if I decide to go and try something else… there’s a lot of good questions there, it’s an interesting question you gave me, because there’s a lot to it.ÿ It’s tough to answer with “Yeah I’d like to be here for this or that..”ÿ I’m not interested in titles anymore, I can’t win any more titles, you know? How many more belts or medals do I need on my wall?ÿ I mean, it’s more about setting certain accomplishments.ÿ It doesn’t look like I’m gonna get a shot at Tito (Ortiz) again, anytime before I’m about 40!ÿ So it’s a little disappointing in that, you know I want to fight the other guys I lost to in Pride, and I can’t seem to get those fights you know?ÿ
I basically feel like I’ve earned all these fights – I fight everybody that they put in front of me, there’s not a single person I’ve ever turned down on a fight.ÿ And I give rematches to guys that want them.. so I figure, I deserve ’em.ÿÿ But I guess they don’t see it that way.. so it gets a little frustrating for me, because I go out there and I feel like I fight my heart out…. and for what we should be getting paid, everybody thinks we’re making great money – but the long and short of it, for who I am and what I’ve done in martial arts fighting, compared to the average boxer, champion boxer that makes a great payday, he’s not any more well accomplished than I am.ÿ I’ve had 142 professional fights.ÿ How many guys have had that many fights in boxing, stuff like that, and still has their brains about them?ÿ I’ve fought a lot, and I have paid my dues.ÿ I fought for 50 dollars a round before in boxing and kickboxing… I’ve fought in 16-man full contact Karate tournaments for $2000 – if you win the thing.ÿ I have paid my dues… so I figure that there are a couple things that I want to do before I get too old to do them – and I want to have some of these matches, if I lose them, that’s okay, I don’t care.
What I can’t stand are these guys that tell me they could have been something or would have been something, and I say, “That’s bullshit. Because you know what, you never had the balls to do it.”ÿ And I remember a guy that used to go to these full contact Karate tournaments, I swear, he’d get the dogshit beat out of him every single time.. I don’t think I remember him ever winning once.ÿ And I’d be like, “Why do you do this?” because it’s not like point Karate, you know – they’re beating him down bare fisted, kneeing him in the face, and kicking him.ÿÿ And I go, “Why do you do this, you know man? You fight on this circuit……”ÿ And he goes, “You know what, my dream is to win this one day.ÿ And if I don’t show up and fight, I may never know if I could do it or not.”ÿ And that man, that always stuck with me, I always had more respect for him than I had for some of my guys, I’d fight some of these guys, they would complain about every single thing.ÿ If I didn’t knock them out, you know, ’cause the circuit ran.. you had to fight the same guys over and over all the time, because it wasn’t that big, that style of Karate wasn’tÿ big in the United States.ÿÿ And they would sit there and complain, if I didn’t KO them, and I’m like “You got the crap beat out of you, and you’re complaining about a referee’s decision against you?”ÿ These guys would whine about every single thing, and here this guy is , he’d fight every weekend, get dropped or KO’ed every fight, and he’d come back for more.ÿ Because his dream was to win it, and he wasn’t going to give up – so I have more respect for guys like that, than I do for the guys who say “I could have been that” but never tried.ÿ I’d rather be known as a guy who went for it, I would think that everybody would want to be known as Muhammad Ali… I would love for everyone to think of me as the Muhammad Ali of martial arts.ÿ Now, the reality is, that they probably won’t think of me as that.ÿ I would think probably I’d be known more as a, I don’t know, a Sonny Liston or something.ÿ A tough guy, a good champion in his day, you know.ÿ That’s kinda what I want to do.ÿ I want to set my mark by fighting the best out there, and I deserve it.
TXMMA:ÿ And that’s a shame, because two the guys you’d like to rematch against, Chuck and Tito, primarily fight on a different continent for a different organization…. so who knows when you’ll be able to get rematches against those guys.
Guy:ÿ And that’s part of what’s going to stall the growth of what we’re doing.ÿ We need to have a universal system…boxing, if you do boxing, you know that a championship fight is 12 rounds, in the old days it was 15.ÿ Everybody knows that, 3 minutes and 1 minute rest, where you wear boxing gloves, you wear boxing shorts, boxing shoes, you have a mouthpiece, a 10 count when you go down, you’re not allowed to headbutt, you know… it’s universal.ÿ It doesn’t matter if you’re fighting in Thailand or if you’re fighting in Japan, you’re fighting in Europe, or you’re fighting in America.ÿ They’re all basically the same rules… a couple variations, some have a standing 8 count, some have a 3-knockdown rule, but they’re all basically the same rules.ÿ We fight in free-fighting, everybody has their own version.ÿ And that stalls it.ÿ And the other thing is, the sanctioning body also happens to be the production company.. so that stalls it – we don’t have an independent sanctioning body.ÿ And that stalls some of the growth of the sport too.
TXMMA: I’d agree, in terms of the legitimacy of it and how it’s regarded by the public…
Guy:ÿ Absolutely, it’s like “Gee, you’re the WWF Champion.” WWF is not really a sanctioning body, it is an organization.ÿ That’s kind of like the same thing, obviously there’s a little more legitmacy here because it is real fighting… but the fact is what we need to try to do is to get an independent sanctioning body that is legitimate, and have promotion companies bide for that sanctioning body to promote that fight, you know?
TXMMA:ÿ I know I have friends here in Austin, and people that I’ve just met off the street, where in trying to get some feedback, some grass-roots market research if you will, I give them tapes of UFC’s and other MMA events, and they have similar comments.ÿ Especially those who have never heard of the UFC but know a lot about boxing, a lot of the time they ask “Is there any sort of sanctioning body that oversees these events, or determines who is ranked what, etc?”ÿ So that is an important step in establishing the legitimacy of the sport.ÿ Hopefully as the New Jersey and Nevada rules become more accepted as a baseline by state athletic commissions, we’ll see more uniformity in the sport and hopefully some sort of sanctioning body will come about.
NOTE: Unfortunately due to technical problems (batteries died in my digital recorder, LOL) the last few minutes of this great interview with Guy did not make it.ÿ However the points that Guy made in the rest of the interview were as follows:
Guy on the UFC and Zuffa:ÿ Guy believes that they have done good things for the sport, and that a lot of this has to do with the fact that they are all fans – Dana White and the Fertittas – and love the sport.ÿ Also, if the money is right, he would be willing to fight in the UFC, however they don’t seem all that interested in him right now as far as an opponent for Tito (Ortiz-Mezger III, that is).ÿÿ He feels that once Zuffa gets together with some of the other organizations to really hammer out solid uniformity in the sport across the US, it will really help the sport as a whole in terms of recognition and legitimacy.
Guy on MMA in Texas:ÿ To Guy, Dickie Cole and the Texas DLR have been very open-minded and fair about MMA thus far.ÿ Except for open-hand striking, which is not very commercially viable, he feels that everything else has been very positive with the DLR and that full MMA will come soon to Texas without a doubt – we just have to wait a little while longer.ÿ Meanwhile, despite the actions of a few who have helped set the sport back in the state by running illegal shows, the DLR is slowly but surely moving along in figuring out how to institute new rules and change the existing law.
Guy also is very supportive of all shows around Texas because he feels it is important to give students an outlet – there needs to be a grass roots level for this sport to ever amount to anything, and the whole reason he allowed his name to be used to help promote events in Dallas is because he wanted to help make sure there were events that his students could fight and gain experience in.ÿ Overall, he is a strong believer in having smaller shows than the UFC, etc. because those are the shows that up and comers need, and that people looking for an outlet or test of their training need.
Many thanks to Guy for taking the time to do this interview, and we wish him luck against Ricardo Arona.
The Dallas Lion’s Den, also known as Guy Mezger’s Freestyle Martial Arts, is located on McKinney avenue in Dallas, for contact information please check our Schools page.